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KISMET DIVIDED

KD is an AU (non-canon) Loveless RP forum. Septimal Moon - the government - has been oppressing its people for decades, prioritising those with written fates in the form of "true names" over those without such fates. Those that are in the know are amassing in retaliation. Will you join the other side of the fray? Or will you side with the superior?

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CALLING ALL COUNCILMEN The 7 councilmen of Septimal Moon are about to hold a conference meeting in the Rathaus and discuss current events and future plans for the Capital. Sign-ups end May 15th. Read more about it here.

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 [POLL] Should we "revamp" Betelgeuse?
 
[POLL] Should we "revamp" Betelgeuse?
Yes, update Betelgeuse [ 7 ]  [87.50%]
No, don't update Betelgeuse [ 1 ]  [12.50%]
Total Votes: 8
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IOTA
 Posted on May 14 2018, 05:29 PM
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The Poll is closed, thank you for voting
Hey, guys!
So, I've been wondering for quite some time if we should make some changes to how Betelgeuse operates, to make it make it flow better in terms of canons, plots, et cetera. This poll is anonymous.

So far, we've had quite a few issues where concepts and ideas tend to combine current divisions (info/insurgence being a big one), and issues with certain divisions really struggling to prosper.

We have yet to discuss what would change/be different, et cetera, as we wanted to ask you - the members - first since this change would affect you more than it would affect us. I would still like there to be four kingpins and all the current canon positions, so that will most likely be staying.

Some things I am considering:
-Removing Human Trafficking (it has not been at all successful)
-Combing the "insurgence" theme with the rest of the group, as like a "common antagonist goal," though whether canons truly have an interest in insurgence is up to them as individuals.
-Make Betel less autonomous (so they have more reason to interact with each other)

If you are interested in seeing Betelgeuse be revamped and have some suggestions, please post in the comments below or PM them to @CINNAMON or myself (@IOTA). (: Vice versa, if you don't want Betelgeuse to change, please let us know as well either via comments or by the poll.

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HYSTERIA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 12:30 AM
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I encourage the revamp. While Septimal Moon isn't exactly a shining star either, the group has a clear pupose and represents that purpose well. Bel doesn't - so that seems like a necessary change to me. As for what that changes too...I feel like that is dependant on not only members of the site, but what staff envision for the site.
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IOTA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 12:57 AM
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Thanks, @HYSTERIA :) My thoughts are the same.

The votes are still ongoing. We have 14 members, so I would like at least 8 votes for one or the other to determine Betel's current fate. I apologise for tagging you all, but this is something we could really use feedback on to know all of the perspectives about this, whether it's a yay or nay. What did you like about Betel, what didn't you like about Betel?

@NYXIEPIXIE @RUBIX @VICTORIA @ICARUS @HYSTERIA @BECK @RIVER @GRAVES @HOLLOW @SPRING @KOURYUU @FREY

If you could please PM me and Cinna both (include one in the CC box) if you're not comfortable posting publicly, we would both greatly appreciate that feedback as it can help us determine where Betel was successful and unsuccessful in players' opinions.
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BECK
 Posted on May 15 2018, 02:53 PM
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i'll admit i've not been around very long and only know about betel's going ons from stalking the site and then reading over ranth's threads, so admittedly my ability to contribute to this conversation is limited.

but i honestly agree with the list provided of ideas, or would at the very least like to see them come to pass. i don't think there's necessarily anything bad about not having a unified front, it would make betelgeuse vs septimal moon all the more interesting, but it'd be a very one sided affair. solidifying and consolidating power would make them seem like that much more of a threat.

either way, it's obvious y'all aren't pleased with the direction of betelgeuse as is now, so might as well change it either way.

would this be retconned into having always been this way, or would it be the result of some event in the future?
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FREY
 Posted on May 15 2018, 03:37 PM
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To be honest I don't know much about the group outside what's in the site information (haven't poked through threads or anything yet), but if a big criminal organization is what we're going for here, I do think a little more unity could be very helpful in making it a force to be reckoned with, and the changes you've suggested seem to be a good way of doing that.

Edit: I also can't vote in the poll atm, but my vote is "yes"
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RUBIX
 Posted on May 15 2018, 03:57 PM
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I voted ‘yes’.
What did you like about Betel?

I really like the tarot themes with the masks. I think it’s a really cool concept for a gang and the theming of tarot cards to your character is quite fun. It gives Betel more character to it than the stiff SM capital and I think should be empathised more.

I think the concept of Betel being more equal, with fighters, ordinaries and sacrifices working together, contrasts Septimal Moon nicely. I also think the way the divisions are decided makes sense and is logical, and don’t think much needs to be changed to these (aside from one – see below – it’s the same one you have issue with).

The headquarters are nifty and I appreciate the amount of thought that has gone into the locations built around them.

(It’s not really a facet of the site per se, but some of my favourite KD characters are in Betel, which gives it extra points)

What didn't you like about Betel?

To tldr below, I agree with your changes and my points of dislike align with what you’re planning to fix:
I am not fond of how autonomous the divisions are. It made it very difficult to rp when one was alone in a division, which, I think, caused the problem of all betel characters joining one division, leaving others empty. On a more personal level, I found that the information division was hard to operate in isolation and hard to plot for without that close connection to the other divisions, and I don’t think I was alone in that.

I have thought on your suggestion to remove HT and agree with it. Let’s say that Betel does move to a more unified group with a more antagonistic role towards the Capital (which I’ll come onto in a second), I can see where three of the divisions fit. Information offers intelligence. W&D offers support in terms of tech and medicine. Insurgence is the brute power. Human trafficking doesn’t fit. I feel as if it was included to give Betel an edgy dark feel, but it plays no real purpose in plot nor do I see it ever playing a key purpose. There can be human trafficking issues in Betel without a whole division being dedicated to it. I also feel it lies slightly in contrast to the idea of Betel being more equal, with Fighters and Sacrifices being on the same page, to then have them okay with trading and selling lives. Feels very SMy, even if they are a criminal gang.

I would like Betel to be more unified and to be more actively opposing Septimal Moon. At present there isn’t much conflict between the two groups, and even the one mission to steal weapons etc (at least from a surface point) didn’t seem a significant move against SM (disclaimer: I'm greatly enjoying reading it regardless). At present, I don’t see why SM would feel the need to exact force against Betel. Appreciate that a lack of insurgence is part of the issue.

As no one’s mentioned it, I also think there are too many canons in BG. It would be better to focus on a key, smaller group, in my opinion.
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IOTA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 05:08 PM
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@RUBIX Thank you for the feedback :) I greatly appreciate it.

As for this point:
QUOTE
As no one’s mentioned it, I also think there are too many canons in BG. It would be better to focus on a key, smaller group, in my opinion.

In junction with this point:
QUOTE
I really like the tarot themes with the masks.


What would you suggest to fix this aforementioned issue while maintaing the tarot theme? First thing that comes to my mind is keep the kingpins, and give one or two "officers" beneath them, while having the tarots be chooseable/claimable? If that makes sense.

Also, let's not forget that SM will be having new minor canons as well, and since there are three divisions in SM than there are in B, they will also have quite a few canons all together.


__________


@BECK Thank you for pitching in as well!
QUOTE
i don't think there's necessarily anything bad about not having a unified front, it would make betelgeuse vs septimal moon all the more interesting, but it'd be a very one sided affair. solidifying and consolidating power would make them seem like that much more of a threat.

I will keep this in mind.~ ;)

As for retconning? Probably not as Betel hasn't really made any impact on the site yet, aside from one mission that still aligns with the plot.

_________

@FREY
QUOTE
but if a big criminal organization is what we're going for here, I do think a little more unity could be very helpful in making it a force to be reckoned with, and the changes you've suggested seem to be a good way of doing that.

Thank you for the feedback, Frey~.


If you guys have any suggestions, feel free to pitch 'em any time. :)
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RUBIX
 Posted on May 15 2018, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE

What would you suggest to fix this aforementioned issue while maintaing the tarot theme? First thing that comes to my mind is keep the kingpins, and give one or two "officers" beneath them, while having the tarots be chooseable/claimable? If that makes sense.

Also, let's not forget that SM will be having new minor canons as well, and since there are three divisions in SM than there are in B, they will also have quite a few canons all together.


I think your idea works in terms of allowing members to choose their major tarot card. The other alternative would be for you and Cinna to select the tarots you find most interesting/meaningful and select those as your major seven/eight. I think I like choosing more.


My opinion on too many canons actually applies to both sides. I'm aware that minor canons are coming for SM, but I'm not sure they should. After observing on other sites how canons are adopted, I'm of the opinion that canon roles should be limited to key, vital roles. Leaders and those with power. I admit I don't know what the new canon roles are for SM, but if they're not vital, I think they are at risk of being excess. People can play roles in SM and Betel without them being canons as long as the plot enables non-canons to contribute as well as canons.
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IOTA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 05:33 PM
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So, instead of "minor canons," maybe a list of applicable jobs/careers people could take on? I think people may generally struggle more with what jobs they can do for SM over Betel. @RUBIX
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RUBIX
 Posted on May 15 2018, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (IOTA @ May 15 2018, 10:33 PM)
So, instead of "minor canons," maybe a list of applicable jobs/careers people could take on? I think people may generally struggle more with what jobs they can do for SM over Betel. @RUBIX


Possibly? That would provide some inspiration for the sorts of roles that exist. I actually struggle more with working out what job/roles in Betelguese might be. I've no idea what roles exist outside of the officers/kingpins and pretty much every character currently in Betel falls into one of those two roles. Wasn't even sure other roles existed until you mentioned I could play a grunt. I might be alone in that, however.
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KOURYUU
 Posted on May 15 2018, 06:00 PM
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Well, I like the whole canon organization of Betel. The concept anyway. But my suggestions:
- Instead of Human Trafficking, how about making it the Black Market? Including the sale of all illegal/stolen items in general? Humans can be included, so it is broader. They can also supervise stuff like thieves and the general stuff. Like the "Thief Guild Leader".
- Instead of Insurgence, how about them being the Hitman/Assassins/maybe Mercenaries in general?
- I Like the concept of having multiple kingpins. Maybe allow some freelancers? Like work with the group, but not directly tied to it?
- Insurgence should be general.
- Forcing them to interact is good. But maybe make them more structured? Like make them like have each a direct organization? like them being mafia heads or something like that?
- Give a general purpose/goals. A plot for them to push forward. (A suggestions of how the kingpins act)
[WILL AD MORE LATER]
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IOTA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 06:06 PM
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@KOURYUU Thank you for the feedback //files.jcink.net/html/emoticons/smile.gif
They technically do run the black market, but I will make that more obvious this time. Thieving is a big no-no in the outskirts and is punishable as little as a lopped off finger to even death, so they probably won't specialise in thievery lest they start killing each other for stealing each other's crap :| //files.jcink.net/html/emoticons/wink.gif

Anyway, thank you both for the feedback, I will consider it all. //files.jcink.net/html/emoticons/smile.gif Keep 'em coming.
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KOURYUU
 Posted on May 15 2018, 06:14 PM
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@IOTA
By thieving I mean stuff in the Capital. The Capital doesn't give a lot of resources right? So maybe the Betel can steal some? Stuff like that. Good way to force the too the confront each other. ;D
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IOTA
 Posted on May 15 2018, 06:18 PM
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@KOURYUU Oh! I see. Yes, they actually already did that (or in the process of doing in a current mission.) I don't believe it should be a specialised group nevertheless but rather another facet to prevent isolation a second time. //files.jcink.net/html/emoticons/smile.gif
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ICARUS
 Posted on May 16 2018, 04:44 AM
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ICARUS
If you fancy plotting, hit me up on Discord (icarus#6688) or PM.
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I think having the divisions more linked is a good idea, as - like other people have said - it gives more reason for interaction and allows characters to pursue common goals. Maybe have an NPC head of the family to use to drive plots forward and keep the organisations roughly in line?

Human trafficking sticks out a bit because this isn't a site really aimed at gritty dark plots and really nasty characters. Selling human lives kinda also ties into prostitution, which is also something that I think doesn't really fit on a PG13 site. I'm sure it probably happens given the desperate position in the outskirts, but not having it as a focus probably fits the theme of the site better.

I am a sucker for themed groups though, and I do like the tarot card idea. It just feels a bit overwhelming at the moment with far more minor canons than members, and a rather rigid structure that doesn't allow for much character freedom in Betel when compared to SM or just ordinary citizens. I would also suggest changing the wording from 'grunt', as it immediately makes non-officer positions seem unimportant and doesn't do much to attract people to playing them - grunt work is, by definition, menial and dull. Maybe just go for something more neutral, like just members or something more tied into the tarot theme.

I'm also not sure that the insurgent theme particularly fits the group. What motivation does a criminal group have for causing trouble? It's just likely to bring the authorities down on their heads and cut into their profits, though I imagine individuals probably have their own motivations for it. I can see them reacting badly to SM trying to push into their territory, but otherwise why would they bother the capital other than to steal stuff?
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